August 25, 2005

IF State and Church are not Separate, Then Which Church Rules?

This is a compelling argument that I continually make to myself, without any data to support it.  So, I am mining web pages, thank God for the internets to find out exactly which religion George and company want to saddle us with.  The president and others continually discuss the fact we need more religion in our society, in our schools, in our workplace, in our government.  The big problem with this, the one the Founders saw coming WAY back, was - which religion?  What about those who don't believe or agree with that religion?  Forget all the talk about Family Values, this is about setting up an American Religion one baby step at a time.

Okay, so here are the facts.  There are about a million ways to read the various statistics, but this is one of them.  


George, Jerry, Pat, and Rick should quickly agree on the following premises (denotes percentage of Americans STILL represented by our National Religion based on the following premises):



  • Our National Religion will NOT be Judaism (98.6)

  • Our National Religion will NOT be Islam (98)

  • Our National Religion will NOT represent Atheist, Agnostic, Buddhist, anything but Christianity (79.8)

  • Protestant teachings believed by Bushco insist that the Pope is the antichrist, therefore, Our National Religion will NOT represent Catholics (54)

  • Oh hell, let's get to the point, if you aren't Protestant, your burning in hell. (42.5)

  • The Episcopalian/Anglican church has a gay bishop, and the UCC allows gay marriage (40)




Okay, here is where it gets difficult.  How do you cull down the remainder?  I'm looking for votes that show a trend opposite what the right-wingers would want.



  • Methodists - Despite opposition from approximately one-third of the church's members, the General Conference of 2000 upheld the ban on gay and lesbian marriages.  (38)

  • Presbyterian - / Leaders of the Presbyterian Church (USA) have voted overwhelmingly to overturn a ban on ordaining homosexuals as ministers of the church, by a 317-208 vote/ (36)

  • Now, to be lazy, I'm going to take the average of the 33% and 60% from above and lump that onto all the other denominations, even the Baptists (16.74)




Okay.  It got kind of iffy there at the end, but it is hard to find statistics for this kind of data.  Pam in Durham has a diary, which suggests I might be too kind with my numbers.  Only 22% of Evangelical Christians believe you will go to hell without Christ in your life.  


The long and the short of it is this, if people accept that there should be no split between Church and State, then the Church State we will end up with might represent less than 20% of the American people.  This is exactly why the Founding Fathers declared a separation between the two, because THIS was to be a country where every person had their voice heard and every idea could be debated, no matter WHAT a certain religion might think.


To those who go along with the flow NOW because they aren't gay, or they don't like abortion, I will close with this life lesson.


First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;


Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;


Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;


Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;


Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me.

- Martin Niemoller


Don't doubt that your day is coming.









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1 comment:

jenny said...

hey Chuck, ltns, great post. we miss you over at KA. Hope you're well, Jen